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merlin
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 553 Location: God's Country
kg wrote:
Ketch always cheers me up.

And unfortunately it’s a genre of music that’s been co-opted by a very specific socio-political movement.

Ketch Secor: You went to Hank Williams shows so you could dance, drink in the parking lot and feel up girls, and that sounds like rock ‘n’ roll. That’s counter-culture. Now you go to country music to take a loyalty oath, buy skull products and sign your kid up for the armed services. Country music has been co-opted, reformed and sold back to us, but it’s a f*cking impostor. But country music was always for the peckerwoods. Those right-wingers, they’ve got a place in country music, and they’re entitled to it. Now politics aside, if you grew up in horse culture, if you grew up knowing how to handle a team of mules, country music belongs to you. Even if you hate Obama, even if you’re scared as hell of California. If you grew up working with your hands, country music belongs to you, no matter where you stand, what you stand for, or what you’re afraid of. But there’s a lot of deception because the commodification of our art means power and money for a lot of people. If country music filled you with hope the way they say it does, rather than dumb you down, this would be a different kind of American south we’re living in.

Can somebody translate that for me? Ketch lost me.

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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:46 pm Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
me too. i think bottom line is yah he is like most artists-- left wing liberals that think the only people that think differently (me) are ignorant people and you mite as well blame it on country music...OH MY HECK!! my possums a boilin over! by!
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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:04 pm Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
also i dont hate obama because he is equal parts black and white. i hate what he and his are doing. and perhaps if you voted for him because he is 50% black & believing that if you made under 250,000 bux a year that he wouldn't tax you one dime more, then you might be the ignorant ones.

the industry is a sham. but the sham they have on a lot of southeners pales in comparison to how this administration shammed the resta ya.

how would not listening to country music change any of this:

"Washington residents will begin paying ObamaCare taxes this year, while most benefits don’t start until 2014. The law includes some 19 new taxes. Here’s a rundown of what Washingtonians can expect in the coming years.

Penalties on individuals. Individuals will pay a yearly penalty of $695, or up to 2.5 percent of their annual income, if they cannot show they have purchased a government-approved health policy.

Penalties on families. Families will pay a yearly penalty of $347 per child, up to $2,250 per family, if parents cannot show they have purchased a government- approved policy.

Penalties on employers. Business owners with more than 50 employees must buy government- acceptable health coverage or pay a yearly penalty of $2,000 per employee if at least one employee receives a tax credit.

Tax on investment income. ObamaCare imposes a 3.8 percent annual tax on investment income of individuals making $200,000 or more and on families making $250,000 or more. The new tax is not indexed to inflation, so more people will fall under it each year. Seniors on fixed incomes and people with IRAs and 401(k) plans will be hit particularly hard.

Tax on “Cadillac” health plans. Starting in 2018, imposes a 40 percent annual tax on health care plans valued at $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families.

Medicare tax increase. Requires single people earning $200,000 or more and couples earning $250,000 or more to pay an additional 0.9 percent in Medicare taxes.

Tax on Home Sales. Imposes a 3.8 percent tax on home sales and other real estate transactions. Middle-income people must pay the full tax even if they are “rich” for only one day – the day they sell their house and buy a new one.

Tax on medical aid devices. Creates a new 2.9 percent tax on medical aid devices. Certain items intended for personal use are exempt.

Tax on tanning. Imposes a 10 percent tax on services at tanning salons. Business owners will collect the tax from customers and send it to the federal government. This appears to be the first federal sales tax in the United States.

ObamaCare will be enforced by the Internal Revenue Service. The tax agency plans to hire 16,500 new auditors, agents and investigators, and to increase enforcement audits. The IRS can confiscate tax refunds, place liens on property and seek jail time if health-related penalties and taxes are not paid.

President Obama had said people could keep their coverage if they want, yet the Congressional Budget Office estimates that under ObamaCare 8 million to 9 million people will lose their employer-provided coverage."

check it out
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okie dokie
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
merlin wrote:
Can somebody translate that for me? Ketch lost me.


Here, let me translate,

ketch: "i voted for barack, and i HOPE obama can CHANGE country music back to what it used to be, and if YOU didnt vote for obama then you are racist..."
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kg
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:19 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
Well, I can't think on an empy stomach, and it's dinner time. But I'll give this a whirl tomorrow or the next day. I sense I know where Ketch is coming from, but it will be difficult for me to put it in words.

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GumboStu
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
I dig that perspective that country music was once something 'you' owned, something inherent in who you and your community were

whereas now what is visible is mostly commodity and it's being sold to 'you'

you have to dig deeper to find soul and spirit

and i think that if you take what he says as some kind of Political sentiment you missed the point

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razorsedge
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 573 Location: Chicago, Illinois
I agree with you Stu....I'm not catching any kind of "you're racist if you didn't vote for Obama" vibe at all.

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LucyStag
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:17 pm Reply with quote
*Cruel Lucille* Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 1022 Location: Dunno
okie dokie wrote:
merlin wrote:
Can somebody translate that for me? Ketch lost me.


Here, let me translate,

ketch: "i voted for barack, and i HOPE obama can CHANGE country music back to what it used to be, and if YOU didnt vote for obama then you are racist..."


I have no patience for that attitude, but I didn't get the feeling that that's what Ketch meant. I don't quite like the EVEN if you hate Obama part, but I don't think he's trying to say that.

I feel like I almost get what he's trying to say, but it's eluding me. Maybe just that whatever stupid stereotypes about country music people have, it's bigger than that. And it's bigger than a certain brand of faux redneck radio shit that's just as much about mindless partying than rap or pop. That's the dumb down kind.

I'm not going to pretend I don't wish that just once my favorite band wasn't liberal (not that Republican would be any better) but I don't think Ketch meant it as bad as some of you suspect.

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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:57 pm Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
tomorrow.
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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:44 am Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
LucyStag wrote:
I have no patience for that attitude, but I didn't get the feeling that that's what Ketch meant. I don't quite like the EVEN if you hate Obama part, but I don't think he's trying to say that.


boy your feathers are the easiest to ruffle
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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:48 am Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
indeedinoditsistern wrote:
also i dont hate obama because he is equal parts black and white. i hate what he and his are doing. and perhaps if you voted for him because he is 50% black & believing that if you made under 250,000 bux a year that he wouldn't tax you one dime more, then you might be the ignorant ones.

the industry is a sham. but the sham they have on a lot of southeners pales in comparison to how this administration shammed the resta ya.

how would not listening to country music change any of this:

"Washington residents will begin paying ObamaCare taxes this year, while most benefits don’t start until 2014. The law includes some 19 new taxes. Here’s a rundown of what Washingtonians can expect in the coming years.

Penalties on individuals. Individuals will pay a yearly penalty of $695, or up to 2.5 percent of their annual income, if they cannot show they have purchased a government-approved health policy.

Penalties on families. Families will pay a yearly penalty of $347 per child, up to $2,250 per family, if parents cannot show they have purchased a government- approved policy.

Penalties on employers. Business owners with more than 50 employees must buy government- acceptable health coverage or pay a yearly penalty of $2,000 per employee if at least one employee receives a tax credit.

Tax on investment income. ObamaCare imposes a 3.8 percent annual tax on investment income of individuals making $200,000 or more and on families making $250,000 or more. The new tax is not indexed to inflation, so more people will fall under it each year. Seniors on fixed incomes and people with IRAs and 401(k) plans will be hit particularly hard.

Tax on “Cadillac” health plans. Starting in 2018, imposes a 40 percent annual tax on health care plans valued at $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families.

Medicare tax increase. Requires single people earning $200,000 or more and couples earning $250,000 or more to pay an additional 0.9 percent in Medicare taxes.

Tax on Home Sales. Imposes a 3.8 percent tax on home sales and other real estate transactions. Middle-income people must pay the full tax even if they are “rich” for only one day – the day they sell their house and buy a new one.

Tax on medical aid devices. Creates a new 2.9 percent tax on medical aid devices. Certain items intended for personal use are exempt.

Tax on tanning. Imposes a 10 percent tax on services at tanning salons. Business owners will collect the tax from customers and send it to the federal government. This appears to be the first federal sales tax in the United States.

ObamaCare will be enforced by the Internal Revenue Service. The tax agency plans to hire 16,500 new auditors, agents and investigators, and to increase enforcement audits. The IRS can confiscate tax refunds, place liens on property and seek jail time if health-related penalties and taxes are not paid.

President Obama had said people could keep their coverage if they want, yet the Congressional Budget Office estimates that under ObamaCare 8 million to 9 million people will lose their employer-provided coverage."

check it out


to truncate your post,
it is the first time in history that the government have passed legislation that the majority of the people dont want. (going against the will of the people)
and it is the first time in history that the federal government is mandating the the people purchase a good/service from them (the goverment).
so, the government is no longer of, for, and by the PEOPLE
the government is now of, for, and by the government.........tyranny
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pittsyltucky
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:59 am Reply with quote
*Johnny* Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 4268 Location: Pigg River District, Pittsylvania County, Virginia
Come on, y'all - give it up - we're just a bunch a peckerwoods that don't know squat.

I didn't care for the tone of a little bit of that interview, myself, but I'm still goddamned stoked to know they played Jimmy Sutton -- Baaaaaaaaa!!!!

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kg
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:01 am Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
What IS a peckerwood?

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Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life. --Phil Ochs
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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:19 am Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
"Even if you hate Obama, even if you’re scared as hell of California. If you grew up working with your hands, country music belongs to you..."

???

how is that not like hillary sayin "even janitors are people too"?

yeah i get HIS POINT.
but im tired of the same people who preach against it all day and night being the most intolerant stereotyping race-baiters that ever lived.

also, yeah im scared of california. not because of the dude with the green boa and high heels or the girl with the lolly pop thong. but because they are BROKE. the state that "leads the nation" in fads and accepted practices from fashion to sex acts...IS BROKE!

the people that worship woodstock but despise the tea parties need to take a personal inventory. a nation of street performers wouldnt last very long. the people that went to college and now get up and go to work every day are the people that go out and support the freedom hippie dope smokin song writers/players, provide them a place to play, serve them food, and tote their junk. but somehow the artists are the geniuses that know everything and we are the peons that need their blessing. well, im just sayin i dont need your blessing, thanks. shove it up there where obamas stickin that hope and change he suckered you with. if there's any room left.

and aren't taxes on tanning beds a little bit racist.

KG just google peckerwood. do aa image search but be sure your "safe search" is totally off first.
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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:36 am Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
indeedinoditsistern wrote:

also, yeah im scared of california. it IS BROKE!

the people that worship woodstock but despise the tea parties need to take a personal inventory. a nation of street performers wouldnt last very long. the people that went to college and now get up and go to work every day are the people that go out and support the freedom hippie dope smokin song writers/players, provide them a place to play, serve them food, and tote their junk. but somehow the artists are the geniuses that know everything and we are the peons that need their blessing. well, im just sayin i dont need your blessing, thanks. shove it up there where obamas stickin that hope and change he suckered you with. if there's any room left.


america is broke, we just like to act like we arent, which is why we need to audit the federal reserve.

i am both, a dope smokin street performin artist who went to college and got an education and who goes to work everyday to provide for myself and for my family, not to provide health insurance for ignorant people who have made the wrong decision in their life.

i dont need the goverment's help, their hope or their change, the one time i asked for their help they told me i was too white and my single mom made too much, so fuck em
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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:39 am Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
LucyStag wrote:
I have no patience for that attitude, but I didn't get the feeling that that's what Ketch meant. I don't quite like the EVEN if you hate Obama part, but I don't think he's trying to say that.
.


that is too bad, you are probably the same person that would much rather have the 1st amendments repealed instead of talking with someone who disagrees with you
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Kitty
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:50 am Reply with quote
*Mrs. Kitty* Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2344 Location: Durham, NC
HEY HEY HEY - - - political discussion and disagreement are fine.... but verbally attacking any members of the forum for their opinions is NOT fine.
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HoosierMama??
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 68
I think you all misunderstood Lucy. I'm pretty sure she was trying to say she didn't have patience for people who think 'i voted for barack, and i HOPE obama can CHANGE country music back to what it used to be, and if YOU didnt vote for obama then you are racist... 'AND she didn't feel like that's what Ketch was saying anyway.

I don't think her lack of patience was caused by Okie's attitude.

I could be wrong but that's how I took her post.
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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:00 pm Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
i didnt misunderstand it but, yeah, i too thought ok dookey misunderstood her comment.
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razorsedge
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 573 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
and aren't taxes on tanning beds a little bit racist.


Touche!

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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
indeedinoditsistern wrote:
i didnt misunderstand it but, yeah, i too thought ok dookey misunderstood her comment.


i understood her comment, you womerns are so dang sensitive! remember when america was tough and people said what they wanted and were unapologetic about it....thems were the days
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GumboStu
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:36 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
kg wrote:
What IS a peckerwood?



+1 Shocked

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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
GumboStu wrote:
kg wrote:
What IS a peckerwood?



+1 Shocked


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=perckerwood


Last edited by okie dokie on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GumboStu
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:42 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
cool - it's not defined yet Confused

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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
GumboStu wrote:
cool - it's not defined yet Confused


ok after reading ketch's interview again i think this is the definition

Peckerwood: noun,

A person who went to Hank Williams shows in order to dance, drink in the parking lot and feel up girls.

"my grandfather sure was a true perckerwood"

but then i just found this also

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peckerwood

"A peckerwood is a rural white southerner, usually poor, undereducated or otherwise ignorant and bigoted, the term gained popularity in the deep south during the early twentieth century and was meant to be derogatory. It is a reversal of the name of the red bellied woodpecker which had a patch of red on the back of it’s head and neck, therefore a peckerwood is a redneck, terms that describe similar groups of people are trailer trash or white trash but neither of those have the same effect or ring to them as peckerwood does. "
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GumboStu
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:57 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
thanks -i didn't notice the spelling there Okie!

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GumboStu
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:03 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
the more i read that quote the more i am reminded of this song:

barfight by moschell

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okie dokie
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 372 Location: Tulsa, OK
GumboStu wrote:
thanks -i didn't notice the spelling there Okie!


yeah i didnt realize i spelled it wrong

i remember eminem called everlast (house of pain) a Peckerwood in one of his "diss tracks"
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merlin
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Old Crow Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 553 Location: God's Country
I did not mean to start a political debate, but I really did read that like 20 times and I never really got what Ketch was trying to say.
I don't understand what role politics play in country music turning into crappy pop music.

and Okie I think Lucy was agreeing with you. I read it wrong the first time too.

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kg
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:25 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
Okay, I'll give this a try, though I don't think I can do justice to Ketch's thoughts.

I feel much the same way he does, I think, when I listen to the new country music. It often has a feeling of being produced to the point of blandness. (Frankly, that's what I worry about even when I listen to Old Crow recordings. Live, the boys are hell on wheels! But that's another discussion.)

Country music of the type I listened to years and years ago always embraced the poor man and the plight of the unfortunate. Ironically, these same performers were buying Cadillacs and diamonds. (But that's another story too.)

I think Ketch really comes out of the folk tradition and what it pulled out of popular song from the mountains and from Anglo-Irish ballads. He grooves with Phil Ochs and the early Dylan, with Seeger and the Almanac Singers. He is looking back to the time when music was performed in the home instead of played on the stereo. And when I think about it, how many of us still sing? I guess I only sing at church anymore or on the few occasions when I can sing silly songs with children.

As for the political undertone of Ketch's quote, I don't know. He is overgeneralizing, of course. I think that once issues are calmly and openly discussed, most Americans fall in the middle as I do. Some issues are divisive, of course--abortion, homosexuality, and all that--but most of us want freedom of opportunity along with some controls over the larger forces in the economy and elsewhere that can endanger us or impoverish us. You all have to remember that I'm old enough to remember that Blacks were asked to use different water fountains than Whites. All of that and a lot more garbage occurred in my lifetime. And the mining disasters? Since when is that new? The safety regulations have long been skirted. It's a brave and maybe a desparate man that still goes down in the mines. And who will protect us from the government's intrusion in our private lives? I voted for President Bush twice, but I still condemn what he did with the so-called Patriot Act. (And many, many of the Democrats went along with him.)

Well, I'm veering off into my own little diatribe. I don't mean to. I'm just trying to call to mind the Populist tradition in American music, art, and politics that I've read so much about and that I see, to a certain extent, in the folks now pushing for independent voices in Congress. Call it the Tea Party or whatever, but let's remember to vote FOR something in November instead of AGAINST something.

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Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life. --Phil Ochs
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