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<  Lyrics / Chords  ~  Noah's water fall, Noah's waterfall

frogbotfan
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:14 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 59 Location: North Carolina
Any idea what that reference in "I Head Them All" means?

I hear Noah's waterfall or (water fall?).
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lbrod
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:22 pm Reply with quote
*Bloodshot Hot Rod* Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 1358 Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass
The story goes that Noah heard water falling for 40 days and nights.
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kg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:56 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
Noah is featured prominently in the Qur'an, as well as the Old Testament.

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frogbotfan
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:44 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 59 Location: North Carolina
frogbotfan wrote:
Any idea what that reference in "I Hear Them All" means?

I hear Noah's waterfall or (water fall?).


Quoting myself. Is it a real waterfall, that is, water coursing over a ledge, dropping from heights? Or is it water falling, subsiding, abating, diminished, receding? (Can you actually hear that?)

I just don't get it. I have re-read Genesis 7-8. There's nothing there about a waterfall (from a height). There's a lot of rain, of course. But that's G*d's rain, not Noah's.

I had completely forgotten that Noah was "the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent." (Genesis 9, 20-22). If Noah then had to p**, I suppose we could hear "Noah's water fall".
:^)
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GumboStu
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:41 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
I'd wondered about that option, frogbotfan, and the receding flood one , too

... of course technically you only really hear water land, but i think it means being reminded of the rain which Noah survived. A kind of recognition of an end times scenario playing out.

And yes kg, it's too easy to forget that the Old Testament is pre-christian!

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kg
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:40 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
You guys are forgetting perhaps that these are lyrics. Waterfall is a near rhyme. I kinda like it, too. One might say flood or torrent, but waterfall does the trick like none other.

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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:00 am Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
Not for my part, kg. Just exploring the possibilities.

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Chigger
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:44 am Reply with quote
*Lucky No. 7* Joined: 30 Jul 2008 Posts: 1358 Location: McMinnville, Tennessee
I believe it's more a reference to Noah than any one particular event/action. Thus it adds to the other religous references in the song, furthering the concept. I'm subscribing to Ibrod's theme of hearing the water fall though!

Dont over-analyze it, you'll lose the magic! Very Happy

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kg
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:03 pm Reply with quote
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Chigger's right! Look at this garbage!

http://books.google.com/books?id=IhTkZ6K8c3sC&pg=PA158&dq=%22old+crow+medicine+show%22&hl=en&ei=65UYTse0AeHW0QG87aCXBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22old%20crow%20medicine%20show%22&f=false

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frogbotfan
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 59 Location: North Carolina
kg wrote:
Chigger's right! Look at this garbage!


I didn't find the piece in Shout Out so far off base. To me "I Hear Them All" is more in the tradition of Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Goin' to Fall". I hear overtones of Dylan in a lot of OCMS stuff and some of it equals Dylan's craft.
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kg
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:08 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
frog, I can't conceivably understand how the author came to the conclusion that Ketch and his co-writer think the victims of 9-11 deserved to die so. I found that part to be strange, if not offensive. As for the song borrowing anything from "If I had a Hammer," I just don't hear it.

Or perhaps we aren't looking at the same article. "Shout Out"?

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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:13 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
Likewise. The Shout Out article confirmed for me that people see mostly what they are interested in.

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The whistle knows my name
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Thousandaire Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 1015
kg wrote:
Chigger's right! Look at this garbage!



I found it kind of interesting. I wish the rest of the article was available for preview. I have to admit I've had a hard time in the past understanding the relationship of the second verse -

I hear the sounds of tearing pages and the roar of burning paper.
All the crimes in acquisitions turn to air and ash and vapor.
And the rattle of the shackle far beyond emancipators.
And the loneliest who gather in their stalls.


to the third -

So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all.


The use of fire imagery in the second verse so close to the imagery of the towers suggests, to me anyway, that they're linked. I can understand how someone could interpret the lyrics to mean that the fall of the Twin Towers is a restorative act, a revitalizing fire removing economic injustices (the "crimes in acquisitions"). I'm still not sure what Ketch is trying to say with that specific imagery. It's clearly a song that renounces violence as a means to social justice, as antagonistic to it in fact, but I still feel left with this suggestion that the destruction of one of the world's economic centers was fortuitous. I'm pretty sure that Ketch has spoken about this song in interviews, but I haven't been able to find any of them. I love trying to parse out the meaning of the lyrics, although I know it should be done cautiously. I mean, you could use the "leaders quit their lying" line to suggest that Old Crow are 9/11 truthers.


Last edited by The whistle knows my name on Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:27 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
I wouldn't have made the jump from "questioning the innocence" to "deserved to die" though.

But neith would I have made the jump from

Quote:
I hear the sounds of tearing pages, And the roar of burning paper,
All the crimes and acquisitions Turned to air and ash and vapor.


to the world trade centre and 9/11

I thought there was a thread around here that linked those lines to a particular fraud investigation in some american corporation where they destroyed evidence ...

.. but i can't find it :(

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The whistle knows my name
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Thousandaire Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 1015
The line So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power seems critical of forces other than the 9/11 terrorists directly responsible for the attacks, forces that have money and power, i.e. economic powers. The lyrics associate these dixie-whistlers with the Twin Towers, whether that association is figurative or literal. And the Twin Towers were an economic center. I agree that it's not commenting on the specific guilt of those who died that day, but if it's not a comment on the economic system that the Twin Towers represented, it certainly lends itself to that interpretation.

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frogbotfan
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 59 Location: North Carolina
kg wrote:
frog, I can't conceivably understand how the author came to the conclusion that Ketch and his co-writer think the victims of 9-11 deserved to die so. I found that part to be strange, if not offensive. As for the song borrowing anything from "If I had a Hammer," I just don't hear it.

Or perhaps we aren't looking at the same article. "Shout Out"?


OK, I re-read it more carefully this time. I agree with board-sentiment on this. I don't think the lines refer to 9/11, Shout Out is wrong here.

I hear the sound of tearing pages and the roar of burning paper
All the crimes and acquisition turn to air and ash and vapor
And the rattle of the shackle far beyond emancipator,
And the loneliest who gather in their stalls.


refer to 9/11. Tearing pages and burning paper are NOT part of the imagery of that event. (Flying paper and ash of course are part.) If anything, the verse suggests censorship (tearing pages) and book burning (the way the Nazis did).

At the same time I have to say that that whole verse doesn't make logical sense to me. Who are "emancipator[s]"? Why does OCMS sing "emancipator" (singular) here? Who are the "loneliest" and in whose stalls are they gathered? (That is, stalls belonging to the loneliest or stalls belonging to emancipators?) Maybe it would work better with "crimes OF acquisition" (acquisitiveness) than as "crimes AND acquisition".

I think one just has to admit that this verse is not tightly written and let it go. The imagery will carry it, whether or not it makes logical sense. But some of Dylan's apocalyptic lyrics will have similar problems, that is, it doesn't make good logical sense. And Dylan makes an occasional grammatical error too.
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The whistle knows my name
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:02 pm Reply with quote
Thousandaire Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 1015
[quote="frogbotfan"]
kg wrote:
Tearing pages and burning paper are NOT part of the imagery of that event. (Flying paper and ash of course are part.) If anything, the verse suggests censorship (tearing pages) and book burning (the way the Nazis did).


That thought crossed my mind too. My problem with that is that it seems like a positive event, "the crimes of acquisition" being annihilated, as if by righteous fire. "Book burning" in the vein of the Nazis isn't something that welcoming.

I'm interested if it's referring to the specific fraud case that GumboStu mentioned. I'll have to get on the hunt for that too.

Sorry if I haven't been especially helpful. It just feels like an unfinished puzzle, without any interpretation feeling wholly satisfying to me, and it's itching the back of my mind.

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kg
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:06 pm Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
But, Stu, if victims are not innocent?

Also, I think it was the Enron disaster where teams of people were hired to shred documents. (There are so many financial disasters to choose from now!)

I suppose the lyrics are loose as frog suggests, but I love them, perhaps for that reason. "Crimes IN acquisitions" is interesting as it is not a condemnation of possessions, but how it's obtained.

whistle, what do you think whistling Dixie means? (I vaguely remember hearing this as a kind of slang.)

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frogbotfan
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:14 pm Reply with quote
Raisin' a Ruckus Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 59 Location: North Carolina
kg wrote:
What do you think whistling Dixie means? (I vaguely remember hearing this as a kind of slang.)


Web-Wisdom:
to talk unrealistically; to engage in unrealistic or overoptimistic fantasies; as, "you ain't just a-whistlin' Dixie!" I think I've only heard it negatively as above.
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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:14 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
Quote:
So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.

this line to me says that
while those with so much money and power think everything is fine, there is something important happening at a grass roots level and it's happening in the 'midst of the aftermath'* of 9/11

* sorry i couldn't phrase that better.

what the author(s) mean by that is open for speculation. My interpretation is that there is a change afoot. Questions are being asked, institutions being critiscised, pillars of society have been rocked. it is less and less likely that we just accept what we are told by ... whoever.

this whole song is about being able to hear all the voices. And by inversion it is stating that everyone is important. If you have so much that you can whistle dixie after 9/11 then you fundamentally disagree with that idea.

Personally I always thought it was the Lowliest who gathered in their stalls - a little donkey image - jesus riding into town on an ass. This was a sunday school story about the ass that was chosen. It inferred that everyone is important. I hear them all.

the rattle of the shackle far beyond emancipator

this sentence has the feel of a paragraph that comes spilling out in 8 words.
It is those shackles being tested and beyond any individual revolutionary emancipator, everyone senses freedom.

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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:24 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
kg wrote:
But, Stu, if victims are not innocent?


it wouldn't change the fact that they are victims.
And as i stated earlier i don't believe that part of the lyric (crimes of/and/in acquisition) refers to the workers in the two towers - i think it is referring to the document shredding fraud.



Quote:
Also, I think it was the Enron disaster where teams of people were hired to shred documents.


ENRON - thank you, yes.

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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:30 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
I hadn't noticed George Porter, jr (bass player of NOLA funk supergroup, The Meters) driving the bus in the I Hear them All video
the Meters playing Cissy Strut:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HVFZtfTKJQ


Last edited by GumboStu on Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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The whistle knows my name
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:57 pm Reply with quote
Thousandaire Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 1015
frogbotfan wrote:
kg wrote:
What do you think whistling Dixie means? (I vaguely remember hearing this as a kind of slang.)


Web-Wisdom:
to talk unrealistically; to engage in unrealistic or overoptimistic fantasies; as, "you ain't just a-whistlin' Dixie!" I think I've only heard it negatively as above.


Well, "to sit and whistle Dixie" is to be lackadaisical, carefree, uninvolved. I don't know if I've heard it used in a positive way; I've heard it used scoldingly. So the image in my mind is of some fellow, sitting on his porch, whistling and twiddling his thumbs while he watches his neighbor's house burn to the ground. He's guilty of inaction, if nothing else, and callousness, although I think it might be more sinister than that. It reminds me of those old cartoons where the cat is whistling, hands behind his back, acting like he doesn't have a care in the world before he gets ready to pounce on the mouse. Either that, or he's trying to display his innocence after he's done something bad. There's something ostentatious in whistling that's beyond "Oh, that doesn't really concern me, I'm happy".

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The whistle knows my name
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:29 pm Reply with quote
Thousandaire Joined: 21 Apr 2008 Posts: 1015
This song's got such a lovely melody and it just carries you bouncingly along through some truly apocalyptic imagery. It's funny that "Noah's waterfall" is tucked between "tender words" and "gentle lamb". "Noah's waterfall" sounds innocuous enough, but it's important to remember that the rain that fell on Noah was the wrath of God, and the entire human population (except for, what, like ten people?) was destroyed. So the sound of the rain of Noah is an omen that someone's planning a clean sweep. Not exactly as encouraging and hopeful as you'd think on first listen. Frogbotfan, I agree that it shares a close relationship with "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall".

I look at And the rattle of the shackle far beyond emancipator a bit more cynically. You can rattle in your chains but if you're beyond the reach of someone to free you from them, then ain't no freedom coming.

For the record, I like "Noah's water fall" It's a short and sweet and evocative phrase.

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lbrod
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:32 pm Reply with quote
*Bloodshot Hot Rod* Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 1358 Location: Beneath Pacheco Pass
One more reason I love this place. This has been an interesting and lively exchange of ideas including disagreements without rancor. That's why you are my favorite bunch of assholes.
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GumboStu
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:51 pm Reply with quote
*Irish Stew* Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 3666 Location: Joe's Cornfield
The whistle knows my name wrote:
tucked between "tender words" and "gentle lamb". "Noah's waterfall" sounds innocuous enough, but

well pointed out Cool

Quote:
For the record, I like "Noah's water fall" It's a short and sweet and evocative phrase.

duly noted

lbrod wrote:
That's why you are my favorite bunch of assholes

there is nothing fairer than being judged by ones peers Wink

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kg
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:58 am Reply with quote
*Data Miner* Joined: 30 Jun 2007 Posts: 3427
Hahahaha! You guys ARE great!

Stu, you're right, of course, about victims, though I come from the school that always thought "innocent victim" was redundant.

I found a reference last night that suggested "whistling Dixie" meant to engage in unrealistic fantasy or to laze about without purpose.

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Chigger
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:37 pm Reply with quote
*Lucky No. 7* Joined: 30 Jul 2008 Posts: 1358 Location: McMinnville, Tennessee
I had to skim through most of the previous posts. I didn't want ya'lls analytical comments to molest my song... Laughing

KG's right, you folks are awesome!

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indeedinoditsistern
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:42 am Reply with quote
*Garfunkled* Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 1523 Location: Hokes Bluff AL.
if you were killed in a bad drug deal you would be a not so innocent victim. or if you snuck into a zoo and an elephant trampled you. or if someone smashes you in the face because you wouldnt shut up about some used cd store in atlanta.
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Kitty
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:56 am Reply with quote
*Mrs. Kitty* Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 2344 Location: Durham, NC
Ha!! The used cd store in Atlanta comment gets me everytime.....
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